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Discussion in 'Coil Building' started by mach1ne, Aug 25, 2017.

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  1. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    Thanks for the compliment @mach1ne! So I decided to take it one step further and do a 5 core alien 28(5)x36-22 decore. There's nothing quite as frustrating as doing a build and thinking afterwards... I really could have done that better. But I'm too lazy to do it all over again so I'll just post this one. The binding started out a little to spaced and eventually got tight and if I had enough real estate left after making all my mistakes and figuring out my tension I would have had it perfect but its not too bad. Definitely vapable at least IMG_0760-min.jpg .
     
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  2. CrazyChef

    CrazyChef HMFIC
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    Damn dude - that's awesome!
     
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  3. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    Thanks Chef! If I chose to do it again I could get that binding to be a little tighter. I think when you are doing 5 cores you have to find a really fine line between two much tension which is gonna crunch the wires together and to little tension which could cause the binding to space out. At the same time you have to consider whether your leading the wire to much or to little. Once you have the feeling of what's working you can kind of work out what's happening pretty quickly, but this was the first time I attempted 5 cores. It's actually a nice all N80 single coil vape I think its a good alternative to the ribbon stack I've made myself accustomed to. Plus I haven't posted it 100 times yet so there may be room to do it at least once more, a little better.
     
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  4. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    you are on a roll this weekend :D isnt it interesting what happens as you increase the number of cores in an alien? i have been using that set of 5x30/40 aliens a lot on my 26650 tubes since i got fresh batteries and its becoming one of my favorite builds.
     
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  5. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    I think my 5 core alien has a little bit more resistance than the ribbon stack I'm used to so I can take a longer hit and the flavor is pretty similar. Doing both the ribbon stack and the 5 core is a little bit different of a feeling but a pretty similar skill set. The fact that my binding was off in the beginning might bother me until I build the coil again but I feel like it's a good enough attempt to let the coil live out it's natural life and not throw it away prematurely. At this point anytime I try a new build and its successful it's a good feeling.:D
     
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  6. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    yeah they are pretty similar in terms of skills involved. pretty much if you can make an alien framed staple, you can alien wrap most anything...its just a bit different in terms of tension and stretch. i find framed staple stacks are a lot tougher than 5 x round wire stacks. i usually under stretch my decore and then adjust tension as i wrap to dial it in, but on round wire stacks its much easier to get the stretch right first and barely hold the decore so the cores stay parallel.

    that one is definitely a keeper :D and i agree, a successful first try is always a good feeling :D
     
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  7. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    this is what came out of those clamps for the quad parallel box. 6 x .4mm/38 4 x .4mm/2x26/38 .06
    stagg2.JPG
    stagg3.JPG
     
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  8. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    Wow That looks like a beautiful staggerton variation with ribbon wire and round wire acting as your frames. That's a really beautiful precise build I love it. How do you get your spacing so precise? Do you paraclapton? I've always had a problem paraclaptoning for some reason my two wires always overlap one another I gotta figure out how to do it right. I did it once when I did the interlocked aliens but it literally took me 20 something attempts (no exaggeration) and I think my success ended up being luck I didn't actually figure anything out. I find that the loop method is not so precise. Any advice on how to paraclapton? Do you use a regular drill to do your binding? Or is there another way to get your spacing as precise as you did in this build. I love the oranges, yellows, purples and blues. How does she vape? Sorry... I know I'm asking a lot of questions but you are super talented and I demand an explanation!!! lol jk :D
     
    #228 JonathanFriedman, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  9. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    paraclaped it with that 38g fishing line i found last summer. this was my second try with it and its been pretty great both times.
    i put the two spools into zip lock bags that are almost closed (like an inch or two opened so the wire can come out, but it still kind of held in place). then i put those i my lap so i am only holding the two wires (in between my thumb and index finger, tightly so they dont cross over eachother, but stay side by side).
    the angle seems to be more like 90 degrees for the first pass (as opposed to a little bit towards the drill like you would do to get tight clapton wraps)...then when you do the second pass through the spaced wraps, it seems to prefer a little forward angle to catch into the spaces. i did the second pass on the hand drill so i could easily stop and rewind mistakes. i only made a few, but they take a lot of patience to correct. if its quiet enough, you can hear whether your wraps are landing right or not (tink tink tink).
    its hilariously rowdy. i have never got a good vape of super low builds before because tubes and dual parallel setups suffer a lot of voltage sag at those resistances...but this is a quad parallel box. it hits like an unexpected sock full of nickles from behind :D
    thanks man :D always happy to try to share the things i pick up along the way :)
     
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  10. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    ok here is a pair of all ribbon ssfc. 14 x .3mm ka1/38n80. the frames are 3 x .3 that i paraclapped with that 38g fishing line. 3.5 wraps 3mm .08 ohms
    sssfcc2.JPG
    sssfcc.JPG
     
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  11. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    Perfect! You're on fire this week @mach1ne!! I aspire to be able to do that build as clean as you do. Seems like the paraclaptoning with the fishing line is really working for you! You should definitely be sponsored by a wire company or something your photos are great. I bet that SSFC vapes great too, in my experience that build is a good vape. You know how I feel about ribbon wire <3<3<3. My weekend is gonna be all about teaching myself how to paraclapton so I can do a halfway decent SSFC.

    When I think about winning the lottery I don't think about fancy cars or yachts. I think about being able to stay home all day and build for as long as I like. I wish they had building seminars.. so you could do one haha. I would most certainly attend.:)
     
    #231 JonathanFriedman, Feb 16, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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  12. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    thanks @JonathanFriedman :D they are definitely a nice vape. i dunno if there are any fishing shops in your area, but 36 gauge is .12mm and 38g is .1mm. if you can find a fishing shop, try asking them if they have any line in those sizes (or whatever size matches your preferred wrap gauge/current wire inventory). its definitely working as intended. the coils vape great :D

    i have thought a few times lately about trying to do a workshop or class of some kind. i think it would be a logistical nightmare in my area (not enough builders, would likely have to supply tools and wire for everyone, find a location etc). i think it would be easier to do really expensive building workshops for recent lottery winners ;)
     
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  13. CrazyChef

    CrazyChef HMFIC
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    Nothing spectacular, but they vape great in the Reload RTA!

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    IMG_0771-min.jpg This is just about the best SSFC I can do. It still has some mistakes, it's no where close to as nice as the one @mach1ne made a few posts ago, but I guess it is not all bad. I made it with 6 ply .5 ribbon/26 gauge frames/36 gauge binding and I used the loop method for staggering. It is a reasonable improvement from my last attempt.
     

    Attached Files:

    #234 JonathanFriedman, Feb 17, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
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  15. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    @JonathanFriedman looks super clean man. .5 is a little thicker than 26. did you find it was harder or easier to wrap the fuse around it? i usually try to make my frames equal or smaller than the middle stack.
     
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  16. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    Thanks @mach1ne! Yea your right I think the closest you can get to the thickness of 26g is .4 ribbon. I don't think it made a huge difference in the difficulty of the binding (I'd have to try it with .4 ribbon to be sure) but I used a hand drill so it was just a matter of making sure the binding landed in the right spots. Come to think of it there were plenty of times where I had to back up what I was doing cause I skipped a spot and it probably would have been a lot smoother if I had used .4 but it's vapable. It's about as good as I'm gonna get for a SSFC. It ended up ohming out at .15 for the single coil which is right around what I like. It ended up being a lot cleaner than my last couple attempts haha. I felt like if I'm going to post another SSFC I'd really have to be satisfied with the way it came out cause I've wrecked so many of them, who wants to see another wrecked one haha?
     
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  17. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    do you find that the angle for the fuse changes a lot while you are building these? what i mean is that if the frames line up at the start, you can just find the correct angle to hold your fuse/spool and it will fall into place at medium/fast on the drill, then suddenly your spacing is off and you have to do this weaving motion to catch the spaces? i guess its just all the little imperfections in my prep/spaced clapton that eventually add up to do that...but i wonder if its possible to get it perfect so the fuse process goes smoother...
     
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  18. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    I actually find that the angle changes a lot, and that's probably because I haven't figured out how to paraclapton correctly with any consistency so I always revert back to the loop method. When I do the loop I try to constantly pull back the drill as much as possible to keep the tension on the wire otherwise you get a sag which is going to lead to a lot of uneven spacing. Even though doing the loop method that way got me as far as it did I still think paraclaptoning has got to be a better way to get even spacing. Even with paraclaptoning I don't think there is a perfect way to get even spacing because on round wire, while your binding, that staggered wrap is going to move a little bit on each side over time and I think that's what causes those angles. It's funny how the SSFC isn't really a complicated build but of all the basic "standard" builds is probably one of the most difficult to execute with precision. Now I see why so many people that are good at them have told me that they've wrecked a ton of them in the past. Some of my attempts have just been disasters lol. The cool thing is that if you do develop and angle it doesn't really take anything away from the build. It still looks equally as cool to me, especially all colored up, even if you have an angle to your binding. I never even really thought about it until you mentioned it!
     
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  19. mach1ne

    mach1ne New Member

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    are you still using a tugboat as a weight? i saw a cool trick recently (in an n.devine video on youtube) to stabilize that setup a little. you clip, or otherwise bind, the loop, in between the tugboat and the core wire its wrapped over. he used one of those plastic drawstring clips that are usually on hoodies and coats. ill go grab a pic of it set up...

    i used 32g so it would show up better in the pic. the clip thing seems to really stabilize the weight. i imagine tape or anything would work. once you get it set up with your core and the wrap wire, just kind of slide the clip up a bit tighter towards the core and go...
    loop1.JPG

    heres a couple different clips i have collected from various articles of clothing...
    loop2.JPG
    i can get good spacing on round wire with the various loop tricks, but its a bit harder on staple stacks like that. paraclap seems much more consistent, but its still easy to drift a little and end up with some slight variations in spacing. when i did that last build, the 3 x .3 ribbon stacks i used as frames did the same thing as your square ssfc (the wrap didnt slide around at all). i think thats why there is a gap in all my fuses on that build (if you look close at the frames you can see the 3 x .3 in between almost every wrap).
    yeah staggered fuse is one of the hardest things to get good at imo. its probably my worst technique at this point, and i still have a lot of questions and theories about doing it well. i have been trying to incorporate it into all my recent builds lately to get caught up.

    yeah they still look cool as hell, and as long as the fuse all has the same angle, it looks normal. there is a spot on my last build where the angle changes a little from one wrap to the next, but its only visible as a mistake on one side of the wire (so i wrapped it up with that as the inside lol).
     
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  20. JonathanFriedman

    JonathanFriedman Apprentice

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    Thanks for taking those photos! I love n.devine's building channel on youtube. I actually watched his SSFC live build right before I did my build for some inspiration. The clip (or whatever you would call it) is a good idea. I've actually made a staggerton with the loop technique before. I didn't love the way it vaped. It wasn't terrible, it just was a little bit airy compared to what I'm used to. I think the way you did your last staggerton with the extra ribbon wire would increase the wicking potential of the coil and add some flavor benefits. Part of me wanted to try the exact same build you did.. but I didn't want to be a copy cat : P I'm gonna see if I can find one of those clips on one of my hoodies and see if I can't do something like a corrugated wire version of the staggerton, just for the hell of it. I've never completed a corrugated wire build before and it's something I've always wanted to do. I bought a paper crimper with the intentions of making an IVY coil, which is just a basic corrugated build. I failed so many times at trying to make that coil because wrapping it so all the corrugated ribbon stays stacked is like next to impossible, and when I finally did make some semblance of that coil it ended up vaping terribly. I think I saw the IVY coil on OHM BOY JOSH's channel. I used to watch the whole coil wars thing but it got so out of control when they went on to do civil wars or whatever it was that it lost my attention span. I know Raymo was a competitor in the original competition and I've see a lot of his builds. A lot of those builds don't really seem practical. Builds with wraps so wide you can only do 2 and a half wraps. Part of it seemed silly. But it is really impressive the length to which some people will go to achieve something just for the sake of proving how difficult it is. I wonder if any of those coil wars coils vape any good. I'm all for learning new techniques and improving as a builder. I might never be as good as you or Raymo or Chef but its a great hobby. I guess you can say when I started vaping I never ever imagined that I'd even be attempting the builds I am doing now. I've learned a lot from you and @CrazyChef. I don't care how many people follow this particular thread. I get the same exact satisfaction and feeling of reward from just you two liking my builds and encouraging me to learn more that I would from 50 people on a larger forum that I didn't really communicate with. I do wanna learn how to do that alien staggerton that you pulled of nicely.. twice. But first I wan't to perfect my 5 core alien with a 22 gauge decore. Its 2 gauges below what the math says it should be, but it makes really big alien waves if pulled off correctly. That's my next build.:eek::D
     

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